Yea, its kinda sad isn't it?
Steve Lowry
JoinedPosts by Steve Lowry
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4
That Christmas Feeling
by Steve Lowry inwhen i was about eight years old a jw lady knocked on our door and my life changed.
up until that time we were a fairly normal family who celebrated christmas and the like.
funny, but i don't remember being upset about not having christmas anymore at that age.
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That Christmas Feeling
by Steve Lowry inwhen i was about eight years old a jw lady knocked on our door and my life changed.
up until that time we were a fairly normal family who celebrated christmas and the like.
funny, but i don't remember being upset about not having christmas anymore at that age.
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Steve Lowry
When I was about eight years old a JW lady knocked on our door and my life changed. Up until that time we were a fairly normal family who celebrated Christmas and the like. Funny, but I don't remember being upset about not having Christmas anymore at that age. I just accepted my new life and forgot all about it (Christmas). When I left (the WBTS) in 1979 my new girlfriend's family were big time into Christmas. I tried to ‘get into it’, but it seemed I had lost something and I have never really gotten it back. You know what I mean, that Christmas "feeling". I have never really experienced it again like I did as a little kid. Maybe its just part of growing up. I dunno. But I see lots of people of all ages getting caught up in the spirit of the holiday. I think I'm kinda jealous actually. I enjoy seeing my little girl (age ten) getting all exited about it now and that helps me get in touch somewhat with those old feelings. But for me, it’s mostly just another day in the week. And that’s Okay. I guess I was just wondering if other former JW's (especially those who may have been not JW's at an early age) have lost that feeling for Christmas like I have. I guess its just another area of my life that the Watchtower Society has managed to desensitize for me. WTF, it ain’t that bigga deal, I was just wondering about others experiences is all. I guess this is prolly a topic that comes up every year here on the forum. If this is a rehash, I’m sorry for posting. It’s just that it’s that time of year, and it’s on my mind again.
Steve
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Something I want to tell you apostates
by LeftBehind ini want you to know that you have destroyed a family because of your lies about jehovah and his organization.
a family member went apostate and has turned his back on jehovah.
he told us he is never coming back and i know he went and visited internet sites.
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Steve Lowry
"He was influenced by a former Bethelite turned apostate.. All I know is that until my brother got mixed up with apostates our whole family was serving Jehovah. Apostates and my brother made it out to be this huge deal He's proud of the fact that he's an apostate.. I guess not all of you consider yourselves apostates."
You seem to be really focused on negative labeling. This won’t help you with your brother, by the way. Not sure if you need this negative reinforcing because you’re insecure, or you’re just angry and you want to get "even"? Maybe you’re secretly questioning your faith, and you feel that using the "apostate" phrase keep’s you safe? Don’t know. I just think you’re just pissed, and saying the word apostate over and over makes you feel better. You better get past that.
If you’re really interested in maintaining a working relationship with your brother, I would suggest you leave these kinds of knee jerk expressions out of your conversations with him, if you haven’t already done so. People who are recently out of the Watchtower Society are typically hurt and alienated by such expressions. Of course, those of us that are seasoned see it as weakness and we think its kinda funny. Just so that you know, mainstream Christianity considers those who have fallen away from the true faith (ala the Watchtower Society, LDS, etc.) to be the apostates. Kinda depends on your perspective, eh? Personally I could care less. It’s all a bunch of religious mumbo-jumbo anyway. What’s important is family, not religious fervor. Too many families have been torn asunder by people’s so called dedication to their "faith". I can tell you, that as one who has been involved over the years with literally hundreds of broken and destroyed families (including my own) regarding the Watchtower Society (and it’s shunning ‘policy’), that it is the JW who turns his back on his loved one, not the other way around. Of course, the JW doesn’t want to accept his responsibility in this matter and therefore blames family break-up on the one who decides to leave the group. I suppose there are those who have left the Watchtower Society and who have become so disenchanted with it that they may have cut themselves off from everyone that was associated with their former faith system, but that hasn’t been my experience. You want to keep your relationship with your brother? Then swallow your religious pride and love him despite that he may not share your particular faith and belief system. Respect his choice and his path that he has chosen. Anything else, is just so much bullshit.
What’s more important to you, your brother or the Watchtower Society? You decide. It's YOUR choice.
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Something I want to tell you apostates
by LeftBehind ini want you to know that you have destroyed a family because of your lies about jehovah and his organization.
a family member went apostate and has turned his back on jehovah.
he told us he is never coming back and i know he went and visited internet sites.
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Steve Lowry
"You don't know how this has wrecked our family."
Tell ya what, first, you come over here and help fix my family that the Watchtower destroyed (successfully now for twenty-five years), and then we'll worry about fixing yours, dumbass.
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Spell out what a Witness must do to be considered a "good" JW?
by JH in.
what must one do, brother or sister, to be considered a good witness in the congregation?.
don't leave out anything.....
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Steve Lowry
"Spell out what a Witness must do to be considered a "good" JW?"
Two word answer, "Don't Question".
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A Long Post About MY SISTER. Shows up after 5 Yrs just to SHUN some more?
by lisaBObeesa inbackground:.
my sister and i have become estranged because of the tension and hard feelings around this shunning of mom.
it has been several years since i have seen her or heard from her.
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Steve Lowry
".... I feel pain, and rage. And pain. And rage. I just want to LET IT GO. How long am I going to hang on to the anger? HOW do you let it go?"
For me, anger is kinda like pain. I don’t like pain, but pain warns me and keeps me from getting hurt. If my hand gets to close to a fire, it hurts and pain warns me to pull away my hand away. It doesn’t mean that pain is necessarily bad, it actually serves me in this way. I don’t want to ignore pain, or pretend it doesn’t exist. Too much pain is not good, but kept in its place, pain benefits me. I kinda look at anger this way. If someone wrongs me, I don’t mean superficially, but if they deeply wrong me, it’s only natural for me to become angry about it. I don’t ignore or deny my anger anymore than I would ignore or deny the pain in my hand being too close to the fire. I embrace my anger. Embracing your anger and not ignoring, is the first step in letting it go. Some people are angry for years about something, but they never get in touch with their anger (I was like this regarding my JW experiences) and consequently it gnaws at them for years until they finally face it. My anger is there to keep me from getting hurt again. In time, I allow the anger to subside and rest, but I can get in touch with it, at any time. This way, that person won’t (as easily) hurt me again. I don’t live with anger, when it comes to my sister. I don’t even think about her unless something stimulates the memory. But, I will always have anger towards her for her decision to cut me off from my nephews and niece. It really doesn’t matter to me if she believes she was pleasing God in doing so, or not. The end result is pain and hurt for me. And ‘me’, is where I have to live. Is it destructive for me to stay in touch with my anger towards my sister for what she has done? I really don’t think so. I suppose there are those who would say otherwise, but that just doesn’t make any sense to me. I could look at it as; she is a victim (of the Watchtower). Ok, but she is a willing victim. Your sister is also a victim in this sense. I believe that each one of us has an internal moral compass that tells us what is right from wrong. Your sister (like mine) I believe, deep down knows what she is doing is wrong (treating her mother so shamefully). But she has allowed herself to be coddled into believing her action(s) are God pleasing, and THAT is a choice, and should go against any normal person’s internal moral code. She should have all kinds of flags going off in her head that treating her mother this way is wrong, but she chooses to ignore the warnings. It’s a choice. One cannot forget that these are adults making grownup decisions, albeit destructive ones. They reap what they sow. We all do.
I suggest you don’t deny your anger but embrace it, but don’t to let it control you. You don’t want to go to the Darkside (Smile). This event just happened, so its only natural I think to feel the sting for a while. In time that will subside somewhat, hopefully. But I don’t think it’s a healthy goal to completely loose your anger about the way your sister has behaved. You don’t want to get ‘burned’ again, now do you? There is such a thing as righteous indignation, and you have the right to feel that considering her actions, in my opinion. Why not give yourself some time to be pissed? Nothin’ wrong with that. We’re taught that it’s wrong to get angry. That’s just so much bulls**t. Be angry about it, its ok. Most normal people would be pissed about seeing their mothers treated this way.
"many have it much much worse than I do, and yet they seem to have moved on...accepted it."
Dear one, please don’t minimize what you’re feeling by comparing your situation to others. Every situation is unique, and so is yours. Your hurt is just as real and just as painful as anyone else’s is. And don’t rush yourself to "accept it". There are many emotions to work through here, and not just anger. This JW junk we go through takes time. Allow yourself plenty of it. This is not a race, take all the time you need.
"How do you let a PERSON go? How do you let a person go when you really don't want to?"
It was somewhat easy for me, letting my sister go since we were really never all that close. So I may not be the right person to try and answer this question (as if there is an answer). Lisa, everyone in this life must choose his or her own path. I love my JW mother, but she goes hot and cold towards me depending on if she has recently visited my sister who puts pressure on her to shun me (or so I believe judging by her behavior after visits with her). If my mother decides one day to disconnect from me, I will not like it, but if that’s her choice then, I will respect that and give her what she wants. I guess your situation is different though, isn’t it? You sister seems to want her shunning ‘cake’ and eat it too! She wants to visit and keep the family connection (which serves HER) while hurting your dear mother who doesn’t in any way deserve to be treated so terribly. I simply don’t know what to tell you as to what to do. But if I were in your shoes (as much as I can imagine) I would focus my love and loyalty towards my mom. And I might have to have a kind of pretend funeral in my mind for my sister, even if it meant I would miss her. I wouldn’t call her or contact her in any way. And if she were to show up at future family events, I would be pleasant but distant. And if she asked me why I was ‘cold’ towards her, I would be polite, but to the point.
Lisa, I don’t know if any of this may be of any help to you. I know what works for me, but of course that doesn’t mean my process should work for everyone. I feel great compassion (and affinity) for ones like you who have at no fault of their own suffered at the hands of the Watchtower Society. I want to help, but I’m not tooled or skilled enough to accomplish that task necessarily. I can tell you that I have benefited greatly by telling and sharing my experiences with others that understand my situation (such as this forum) and it has helped.
Let us know how you are doing, ok? You are not alone.
Steve
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Hello Scully
by Steve Lowry in(sorry for the bump, but the original thread was way back there.).
thanks scully (and everyone), for your reply in lisa's thread.
this post is a little more background about me and the road i have traveled.. its amazing how many changes i have gone through over the years regarding my former jw life (i left the group way back in 1979).
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Steve Lowry
Hey Mouthy,
I've only spoken with Ray twice; the time at his house when he mentioned the shunning thing, and the conversation I had with him about turning fifty. He prolly wouldn't even remember me by now, but we do have a mutual friend (which is how I met him) in Helen Ortega. I met Helen through the support group I mentioned earlier in another post. Helen became my mentor back in the early nineties and really helped me through a lot of the JW junk I had suppressed over the years. She and her husband Joe have the New Light Ministries here in the Atlanta area. I love her a great deal. That woman speaks to people around the globe about the Watchtower Society and the JW experience. She must be eighty-five years old by now, and sharp as a tack. God has really blessed her. When I need help, she’s whom I go to for wisdom and spiritual advice.
It sounds like you might live in the Atlanta area. It might be fun someday to have a get together of former JW's in the Atlanta area here and those also who may frequent the JW forum who also live in the area could come.
Steve
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Hello Scully
by Steve Lowry in(sorry for the bump, but the original thread was way back there.).
thanks scully (and everyone), for your reply in lisa's thread.
this post is a little more background about me and the road i have traveled.. its amazing how many changes i have gone through over the years regarding my former jw life (i left the group way back in 1979).
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Steve Lowry
Hey Mouthy,
Yea, I feel bad when I look back on that conversation with Ray. I must admit, that when he admitted to having a hand in that shunning 'push' so many years ago, I had a kind of knee-jerk reaction by saying how that had cost me my sister. I feel ashamed still when I think about it and that was some ten years ago. But ya know, I think he must have made peace with himself over it, or he prolly wouldn't have felt comfortable enough to even discuss it in the first place. He has really paid the price for leaving like the rest of us have, even more so I think. I think also that he must surely realize how his book (COC) has helped so many JW's to come out of the group. I’m sure he also knows he has helped those hurting that have left and even family members who were never JW's, but now have a better understanding of why their loved ones behave the way they do. I read it (COC) in three days, and it’s a pretty thick book. I couldn’t put it down. I had a brief conversation with him a few years ago over the phone. I was about to turn fifty and he said, "Your forties are the old age of your youth and your fifties are the youth of your old age". What a wise old soul that Ray is.
Steve
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A Long Post About MY SISTER. Shows up after 5 Yrs just to SHUN some more?
by lisaBObeesa inbackground:.
my sister and i have become estranged because of the tension and hard feelings around this shunning of mom.
it has been several years since i have seen her or heard from her.
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Steve Lowry
Lisa, I apologize (just in case) if I have said anything in your thread that you would find offensive or discouraging. I am truly sorry for you and your mom and what you must be going through regarding your sister. There are no perfect answers for such a situation as yours, and the way I deal with this is not necessarily the way you should. The correct path will present itself to you, I’m sure.
The family unit has so much going against it these days; it doesn't need anymore help from the Watchtower Society. Take care and good luck. Hope for the best.
Steve
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Hello Scully
by Steve Lowry in(sorry for the bump, but the original thread was way back there.).
thanks scully (and everyone), for your reply in lisa's thread.
this post is a little more background about me and the road i have traveled.. its amazing how many changes i have gone through over the years regarding my former jw life (i left the group way back in 1979).
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Steve Lowry
(Sorry for the bump, but the original thread was way back there.)
Thanks Scully (and everyone), for your reply in Lisa's thread. This post is a little more background about me and the road I have traveled.
It’s amazing how many changes I have gone through over the years regarding my former JW life (I left the group way back in 1979). Since shunning wasn’t something openly discussed, I had no idea that I would be treated in such a manner when I decided to leave. How naive I was! Honestly, I wasn’t DF’d for anything other than telling the elders that visited my house (they "visited" after I had stopped going to the K/Hall by a few months) that I no longer had any desire to be JW. At first I felt flattered that they cared enough to visit me to see how I was doing, since I hadn’t been to the K/H for such a time (I grew up in that K/H). But it didn’t take too long before I realized their true motive for visiting me was a kind of pre-DF protocol. Listening to their questions was like listening to someone reading off a checklist. That was my first introduction to the experience of leaving the cult. They showed no love or concern. It was all business. When I finally realized what was truly going on, I got so pissed at them, that I told them to get the hell outta my house. I got up and left the room and didn’t even extend to them the courtesy of showing them to the door. When I think about that day now, it makes me laugh out loud. I also told them that I wanted a copy of my DF document so I could hang it on my wall, so the next time I thought of joining some stupid group I could look at it to remind myself not to make the same mistake twice! LOL! Uh, they didn’t think that was funny! (Smile)
It was about two years later while visiting my mom one night, that my sister and her family were there at the house, and I noticed they weren’t coming anywhere near me. When I asked my mom about it (we were having coffee in the kitchen), she informed me, "Well, Steve, you know, you have been disfellowshipped . . ." with this kind of martyred look on her face. Considering that my JW elder brother-in-law had an affair with my former JW wife two years earlier (neither of them were DF’d.) and that it took some effort on my part to forgive him (at the urging of my father), it was quite understandable that I would get pissed. I was so angry, that I left the house without saying a word. The irony of the situation was overwhelming to me. I forgave the guy for sleeping with my wife but he and his family couldn’t forgive me for no longer believing in God the same way they did! I have rarely felt such anger and outrage in my life. A few days later I got the letter from my sister.
In 1990 I moved out of state and I visited a church there, where to my surprise, there were about a dozen former JW’s who were regulars! This started a wonderful networking of former JW’s for me. I soon realized that my situation (the shunning business) wasn’t the exception, but the rule! I talked with person after person about their experiences leaving the JW group, and while each story was its own, all had a common thread of family separation and heartbreak. I grew to hate the Watchtower Society and its policies that destroys families and people’s spirits. Through the group, I got to meet Ray Franz (Crisis of Conscience), who confided in me that he was to a large part responsible for the ‘push’ way back in the early eighties to put pressure on JW’s to shun former members. This coincided perfectly with the timetable when my sister made her decision to disown me. I know he felt terrible for his involvement in the shunning policy. When I told him it cost me my sister and her family, he just hung his head. Seeing that, it broke my heart. I forgave him, of course.
Ya know, as for the shunning and stuff, I just won’t put up with crazy people’s bulls**t anymore. I cut them off. It doesn’t matter to me if they’re brother or sister or mom and dad. I realize that this is my way of doing things and it may not work for everyone. But it works for me. You want me in your life? Great! You don’t want me in your life? Fine. There are lots of folks that do. Don’t wait up and don’t leave a light on for me, cuz I won’t be coming by. As long as JW’s and people like this know they can manipulate others by shunning, they will continue use this tactic. The way I respond to them is to give them the same treatment. It’s my way of letting them know that their attempt to manipulate me won’t benefit them, and I move on. The only exception would be for my child. I love my child unconditionally. If she were to do this, I would let her know I love her and always would, but if that were her decision, then I would give her as she requests. I would let her know though that I would continue on with my life, with or without her. And, I would wait and hope for her to come to her senses. But I wouldn’t change anything in my life.
Everyone has to choose his or her own path. I feel bad for those who choose poorly (shunning), but it’s their choice to make. I allow them endure the consequences.
Steve